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What Jay's ministry amounts to

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What Jay's ministry amounts to

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What Jay's ministry amounts to	Posted on Jan 10 2007 at 4:04pm by dmaycock
I recently found the show today, and after watching it I think it shows the struggle Jay is having with lots of things. Yet the whole show just amounts to gay theology - is jay nothing more than that? Two out of six episodes, now stemming into a third - great, he has a stance - but why must the ENTIRE SHOW be about that. If Jay wants to be known as pro-gay preaching, why not change the name of the church, write a book and go on the road with that - I don't think it is though The verse goes "Love others, as you would want to be loved". I myself would want someone to make sure I'm walking that narrow path he mentioned in episode three - accountability is important, it's what loving someone is about. I think we all have sin, but saying something is ok and declaring it's not a sin is a stance - regardless, Jay is a brother in christ and I'd give him a hug if I saw him cuz that's what I'd want him to do to me, even though I think yes, it is a sin. Why does the ENTIRE SHOW need to be focused on that though.

RE: What Jay's ministry amounts to	Posted on Jan 10 2007 at 5:33pm by reverend.rumble.fish
I understand what you are saying, but I don't believe that the show is solely on this issue. However, you don't crack open a walnut this big and then expect it to be dealt with in a single half an hour. This is a very hot topic in the Christian community, and it will take time to address; time for him -even- to process it. Additionally it will effect Revolution greatly in one way or the other. Time will reveal all. dmaycock wrote: (Jan 10 2007 @ 04:04pm) I recently found the show today, and after watching it I think it shows the struggle Jay is having with lots of things. Yet the whole show just amounts to gay theology - is jay nothing more than that? Two out of six episodes, now stemming into a third - great, he has a stance - but why must the ENTIRE SHOW be about that. If Jay wants to be known as pro-gay preaching, why not change the name of the church, write a book and go on the road with that - I don't think it is though The verse goes "Love others, as you would want to be loved". I myself would want someone to make sure I'm walking that narrow path he mentioned in episode three - accountability is important, it's what loving someone is about. I think we all have sin, but saying something is ok and declaring it's not a sin is a stance - regardless, Jay is a brother in christ and I'd give him a hug if I saw him cuz that's what I'd want him to do to me, even though I think yes, it is a sin. Why does the ENTIRE SHOW need to be focused on that though.

RE: What Jay's ministry amounts to	Posted on Jan 18 2007 at 1:36am by marc.opug
Aside from this, the show also deals with the relationship with his parents, trying to survive after losing our major financial supporter, the decision to move to NYC and starting the new church. But as we all know this is a hot button issue in the Church so the production company put more focus on this issue than the others; it was not our choosing. But I am glad that you are able to agree to disagree and move forward - I think that is one of the major problems in Christianity today - the fact that if we don't aggree 100% on everything we feel compelled to completely discount God's calling for the other person. Thank you for being able to look past this. dmaycock wrote: (Jan 10 2007 @ 04:04pm) I recently found the show today, and after watching it I think it shows the struggle Jay is having with lots of things. Yet the whole show just amounts to gay theology - is jay nothing more than that? Two out of six episodes, now stemming into a third - great, he has a stance - but why must the ENTIRE SHOW be about that. If Jay wants to be known as pro-gay preaching, why not change the name of the church, write a book and go on the road with that - I don't think it is though The verse goes "Love others, as you would want to be loved". I myself would want someone to make sure I'm walking that narrow path he mentioned in episode three - accountability is important, it's what loving someone is about. I think we all have sin, but saying something is ok and declaring it's not a sin is a stance - regardless, Jay is a brother in christ and I'd give him a hug if I saw him cuz that's what I'd want him to do to me, even though I think yes, it is a sin. Why does the ENTIRE SHOW need to be focused on that though.

RE: What Jay's ministry amounts to	Posted on Jan 18 2007 at 2:08am by corykaren
dmaycock wrote: (Jan 10 2007 @ 04:04pm) I recently found the show today, and after watching it I think it shows the struggle Jay is having with lots of things. Yet the whole show just amounts to gay theology - is jay nothing more than that? Two out of six episodes, now stemming into a third - great, he has a stance - but why must the ENTIRE SHOW be about that. If Jay wants to be known as pro-gay preaching, why not change the name of the church, write a book and go on the road with that - I don't think it is though The verse goes "Love others, as you would want to be loved". I myself would want someone to make sure I'm walking that narrow path he mentioned in episode three - accountability is important, it's what loving someone is about. I think we all have sin, but saying something is ok and declaring it's not a sin is a stance - regardless, Jay is a brother in christ and I'd give him a hug if I saw him cuz that's what I'd want him to do to me, even though I think yes, it is a sin. Why does the ENTIRE SHOW need to be focused on that though.

RE: What Jay's ministry amounts to	Posted on Jan 18 2007 at 2:19am by corykaren
I think you missed it but it not surprising, most Christians do, his ministry is about love and grace, the complete acceptance of others much like the example of Christ. Jay is one cool cat and I know the God I love is Proud of him. [ dmaycock wrote: (Jan 10 2007 @ 04:04pm) I recently found the show today, and after watching it I think it shows the struggle Jay is having with lots of things. Yet the whole show just amounts to gay theology - is jay nothing more than that? Two out of six episodes, now stemming into a third - great, he has a stance - but why must the ENTIRE SHOW be about that. If Jay wants to be known as pro-gay preaching, why not change the name of the church, write a book and go on the road with that - I don't think it is though The verse goes "Love others, as you would want to be loved". I myself would want someone to make sure I'm walking that narrow path he mentioned in episode three - accountability is important, it's what loving someone is about. I think we all have sin, but saying something is ok and declaring it's not a sin is a stance - regardless, Jay is a brother in Christ and I'd give him a hug if I saw him cuz that's what I'd want him to do to me, even though I think yes, it is a sin. Why does the ENTIRE SHOW need to be focused on that though. [/quote]

RE: What Jay's ministry amounts to	Posted on Jan 22 2007 at 6:42pm by seniorsun
You are quite right, but Jesus also talked much about sin and its penalty. He also drove people out of the temple with a whip because of their mockery of the holiness of the place. And Jesus NEVER said that we should completely accept others. He NEVER said that. He said that we should love them, but dont try to tell me that he said we should accept everything about people. That is so untrue. He said to turn away from our sin, to repent and go and sin no more. Though I really like the show, Jay seems to have forgotten that. Jesus went to the saloons and he talked with the prostitutes and showed them love. But he didnt sit there and take her services, trying to prove that he loved her. He didnt drink up the liquor in the saloons. He says over and over and over that there should be a difference in the lives of Christians. I dont see much of a difference in Jays actions and the actions of many agnostics and atheists that I know. So where is the difference? corykaren wrote: (Jan 18 2007 @ 02:19am) I think you missed it but it not surprising, most Christians do, his ministry is about love and grace, the complete acceptance of others much like the example of Christ. Jay is one cool cat and I know the God I love is Proud of him. [ dmaycock wrote: (Jan 10 2007 @ 04:04pm) I recently found the show today, and after watching it I think it shows the struggle Jay is having with lots of things. Yet the whole show just amounts to gay theology - is jay nothing more than that? Two out of six episodes, now stemming into a third - great, he has a stance - but why must the ENTIRE SHOW be about that. If Jay wants to be known as pro-gay preaching, why not change the name of the church, write a book and go on the road with that - I don't think it is though The verse goes "Love others, as you would want to be loved". I myself would want someone to make sure I'm walking that narrow path he mentioned in episode three - accountability is important, it's what loving someone is about. I think we all have sin, but saying something is ok and declaring it's not a sin is a stance - regardless, Jay is a brother in Christ and I'd give him a hug if I saw him cuz that's what I'd want him to do to me, even though I think yes, it is a sin. Why does the ENTIRE SHOW need to be focused on that though. [/quote]

RE: What Jay's ministry amounts to	Posted on Jan 22 2007 at 7:09pm by jcisthelight619
That's absurd..truly absurd. I can see a HUGE difference..because I too know people who are athiest and agnostic. Here we go again...you are a fundamentalist that sits back, believing what you will and making shrude judgements - you believe that homosexuals are prostitutes or drunks...you clump them all into the same mound of sin...because the bible tells you so..again, a bible that clumped the word homosexual only 50 years ago. And so called book you mentioned in one of your earlier posts? By good ol' Josh? Might want to read how his work is under fire...and how he is not very good at explaining what exactly he DOES believe. Many other Christians have criticized his work. Oh, and I guess when you hold church and try to save others in a bar...it's not as good as your polished pews and shiney pulpit...the message just doesn't seem as valuable when a good ol' boy preacher in a fancy suit delivers the message...I mean, there sure isn't any mockery going on there...they are a polished as a new penny...and I would imaging would make it to heaven a whole lot quicker, don't you think? seniorsun wrote: (Jan 22 2007 @ 06:42pm) You are quite right, but Jesus also talked much about sin and its penalty. He also drove people out of the temple with a whip because of their mockery of the holiness of the place. And Jesus NEVER said that we should completely accept others. He NEVER said that. He said that we should love them, but dont try to tell me that he said we should accept everything about people. That is so untrue. He said to turn away from our sin, to repent and go and sin no more. Though I really like the show, Jay seems to have forgotten that. Jesus went to the saloons and he talked with the prostitutes and showed them love. But he didnt sit there and take her services, trying to prove that he loved her. He didnt drink up the liquor in the saloons. He says over and over and over that there should be a difference in the lives of Christians. I dont see much of a difference in Jays actions and the actions of many agnostics and atheists that I know. So where is the difference? corykaren wrote: (Jan 18 2007 @ 02:19am) I think you missed it but it not surprising, most Christians do, his ministry is about love and grace, the complete acceptance of others much like the example of Christ. Jay is one cool cat and I know the God I love is Proud of him. [ dmaycock wrote: (Jan 10 2007 @ 04:04pm) I recently found the show today, and after watching it I think it shows the struggle Jay is having with lots of things. Yet the whole show just amounts to gay theology - is jay nothing more than that? Two out of six episodes, now stemming into a third - great, he has a stance - but why must the ENTIRE SHOW be about that. If Jay wants to be known as pro-gay preaching, why not change the name of the church, write a book and go on the road with that - I don't think it is though The verse goes "Love others, as you would want to be loved". I myself would want someone to make sure I'm walking that narrow path he mentioned in episode three - accountability is important, it's what loving someone is about. I think we all have sin, but saying something is ok and declaring it's not a sin is a stance - regardless, Jay is a brother in Christ and I'd give him a hug if I saw him cuz that's what I'd want him to do to me, even though I think yes, it is a sin. Why does the ENTIRE SHOW need to be focused on that though. [/quote]

RE: What Jay's ministry amounts to	Posted on Jan 22 2007 at 7:37pm by jcisthelight619
Oh, with reply to your: "And Jesus NEVER said that we should completely accept others. He NEVER said that." Also,Jesus NEVER mentioned condemnation of homosexuality...NEVER said it. I think Jesus would be quite ashamed of how the fundamentalist have twisted his love and message...and as the Revolution sticker states...have been a bunch of judgmental bastards. I applaud Jay and others who are truly touching lives instead of kicking their feet up on the judgement table as THEY decide what is good and just...how about women ministers? Thoughts? jcisthelight619 wrote: (Jan 22 2007 @ 07:09pm) That's absurd..truly absurd. I can see a HUGE difference..because I too know people who are athiest and agnostic. Here we go again...you are a fundamentalist that sits back, believing what you will and making shrude judgements - you believe that homosexuals are prostitutes or drunks...you clump them all into the same mound of sin...because the bible tells you so..again, a bible that clumped the word homosexual only 50 years ago. And so called book you mentioned in one of your earlier posts? By good ol' Josh? Might want to read how his work is under fire...and how he is not very good at explaining what exactly he DOES believe. Many other Christians have criticized his work. Oh, and I guess when you hold church and try to save others in a bar...it's not as good as your polished pews and shiney pulpit...the message just doesn't seem as valuable when a good ol' boy preacher in a fancy suit delivers the message...I mean, there sure isn't any mockery going on there...they are a polished as a new penny...and I would imaging would make it to heaven a whole lot quicker, don't you think? seniorsun wrote: (Jan 22 2007 @ 06:42pm) You are quite right, but Jesus also talked much about sin and its penalty. He also drove people out of the temple with a whip because of their mockery of the holiness of the place. And Jesus NEVER said that we should completely accept others. He NEVER said that. He said that we should love them, but dont try to tell me that he said we should accept everything about people. That is so untrue. He said to turn away from our sin, to repent and go and sin no more. Though I really like the show, Jay seems to have forgotten that. Jesus went to the saloons and he talked with the prostitutes and showed them love. But he didnt sit there and take her services, trying to prove that he loved her. He didnt drink up the liquor in the saloons. He says over and over and over that there should be a difference in the lives of Christians. I dont see much of a difference in Jays actions and the actions of many agnostics and atheists that I know. So where is the difference? corykaren wrote: (Jan 18 2007 @ 02:19am) I think you missed it but it not surprising, most Christians do, his ministry is about love and grace, the complete acceptance of others much like the example of Christ. Jay is one cool cat and I know the God I love is Proud of him. [[quote=dmaycock] (Jan 10 2007 @ 04:04pm) I recently found the show today, and after watching it I think it shows the struggle Jay is having with lots of things. Yet the whole show just amounts to gay theology - is jay nothing more than that? Two out of six episodes, now stemming into a third - great, he has a stance - but why must the ENTIRE SHOW be about that. If Jay wants to be known as pro-gay preaching, why not change the name of the church, write a book and go on the road with that - I don't think it is though The verse goes "Love others, as you would want to be loved". I myself would want someone to make sure I'm walking that narrow path he mentioned in episode three - accountability is important, it's what loving someone is about. I think we all have sin, but saying something is ok and declaring it's not a sin is a stance - regardless, Jay is a brother in Christ and I'd give him a hug if I saw him cuz that's what I'd want him to do to me, even though I think yes, it is a sin. Why does the ENTIRE SHOW need to be focused on that though. [/quote] [/quote]

RE: What Jay's ministry amounts to	Posted on Jan 22 2007 at 8:03pm by seniorsun
Boy, you love to look for something to pick a fight over, dont you? Once again, you took what I said out of context. So what do you do with all the verses in the Bible that relate to sin and its consequences? Is there EVER a time when you think that people should judge others' behaviour? What about the instructions in the New Testament on how the church should deal with open sin? If you read those passages, its quite clear that the early church was told that open, unrepentent sin SHOULD be judged and handled in the right way. As far as women ministers go, really not sure because I havent read up on it much. Would prefer a male preacher, but thats just my preference. jcisthelight619 wrote: (Jan 22 2007 @ 07:37pm) Oh, with reply to your: "And Jesus NEVER said that we should completely accept others. He NEVER said that." Also,Jesus NEVER mentioned condemnation of homosexuality...NEVER said it. I think Jesus would be quite ashamed of how the fundamentalist have twisted his love and message...and as the Revolution sticker states...have been a bunch of judgmental bastards. I applaud Jay and others who are truly touching lives instead of kicking their feet up on the judgement table as THEY decide what is good and just...how about women ministers? Thoughts? jcisthelight619 wrote: (Jan 22 2007 @ 07:09pm) That's absurd..truly absurd. I can see a HUGE difference..because I too know people who are athiest and agnostic. Here we go again...you are a fundamentalist that sits back, believing what you will and making shrude judgements - you believe that homosexuals are prostitutes or drunks...you clump them all into the same mound of sin...because the bible tells you so..again, a bible that clumped the word homosexual only 50 years ago. And so called book you mentioned in one of your earlier posts? By good ol' Josh? Might want to read how his work is under fire...and how he is not very good at explaining what exactly he DOES believe. Many other Christians have criticized his work. Oh, and I guess when you hold church and try to save others in a bar...it's not as good as your polished pews and shiney pulpit...the message just doesn't seem as valuable when a good ol' boy preacher in a fancy suit delivers the message...I mean, there sure isn't any mockery going on there...they are a polished as a new penny...and I would imaging would make it to heaven a whole lot quicker, don't you think? seniorsun wrote: (Jan 22 2007 @ 06:42pm) You are quite right, but Jesus also talked much about sin and its penalty. He also drove people out of the temple with a whip because of their mockery of the holiness of the place. And Jesus NEVER said that we should completely accept others. He NEVER said that. He said that we should love them, but dont try to tell me that he said we should accept everything about people. That is so untrue. He said to turn away from our sin, to repent and go and sin no more. Though I really like the show, Jay seems to have forgotten that. Jesus went to the saloons and he talked with the prostitutes and showed them love. But he didnt sit there and take her services, trying to prove that he loved her. He didnt drink up the liquor in the saloons. He says over and over and over that there should be a difference in the lives of Christians. I dont see much of a difference in Jays actions and the actions of many agnostics and atheists that I know. So where is the difference? [quote=corykaren] (Jan 18 2007 @ 02:19am) I think you missed it but it not surprising, most Christians do, his ministry is about love and grace, the complete acceptance of others much like the example of Christ. Jay is one cool cat and I know the God I love is Proud of him. [[quote=dmaycock] (Jan 10 2007 @ 04:04pm) I recently found the show today, and after watching it I think it shows the struggle Jay is having with lots of things. Yet the whole show just amounts to gay theology - is jay nothing more than that? Two out of six episodes, now stemming into a third - great, he has a stance - but why must the ENTIRE SHOW be about that. If Jay wants to be known as pro-gay preaching, why not change the name of the church, write a book and go on the road with that - I don't think it is though The verse goes "Love others, as you would want to be loved". I myself would want someone to make sure I'm walking that narrow path he mentioned in episode three - accountability is important, it's what loving someone is about. I think we all have sin, but saying something is ok and declaring it's not a sin is a stance - regardless, Jay is a brother in Christ and I'd give him a hug if I saw him cuz that's what I'd want him to do to me, even though I think yes, it is a sin. Why does the ENTIRE SHOW need to be focused on that though. [/quote] [/quote] [/quote]

RE: What Jay's ministry amounts to	Posted on Jan 22 2007 at 8:16pm by jcisthelight619
Well, that explains a lot. Look, you're fundamentalist...I am not in any way. I do believe there are consequences for sin..including perverted sexual acts..lustful acts...BOTH heterosexual and homosexual..that is what I feel the bible means...not love...so we can go around and around. People are born gay...that is what I believe..you cannot change my mind on it - and I have said...what about all the other scripture that we do not adhere to today? Yourlast comment...women didn't have very many rights back then-things have changed...so many churches don't allow women ministers - yet some do - is it a sin? No, because we have evolved - The fundamentalist is just as clever in blowing up what they want and looking over laws stated in the bible. Seems that you do pretty good in coming on here...downing Jay and then say, "what did I do?"...like I said before..that the typical fundamentalist way....spout off and then say, "now wait a minute, you're being awfully agressive and that is just not the way of the Lord"....I grew up Southern Baptist...I am very familiar with how it all works. So, say what you will how I am starting a fight..there sure isn't any love coming from you brother. seniorsun wrote: (Jan 22 2007 @ 08:03pm) Boy, you love to look for something to pick a fight over, ont you? Once again, you took what I said out of context. So what do you do with all the verses in the Bible that relate to sin and its consequences? Is there EVER a time when you think that people should judge others' behaviour? What about the instructions in the New Testament on how the church should deal with open sin? If you read those passages, its quite clear that the early church was told that open, unrepentent sin SHOULD be judged and handled in the right way. As far as women ministers go, really not sure because I havent read up on it much. Would prefer a male preacher, but thats just my preference. jcisthelight619 wrote: (Jan 22 2007 @ 07:37pm) Oh, with reply to your: "And Jesus NEVER said that we should completely accept others. He NEVER said that." Also,Jesus NEVER mentioned condemnation of homosexuality...NEVER said it. I think Jesus would be quite ashamed of how the fundamentalist have twisted his love and message...and as the Revolution sticker states...have been a bunch of judgmental bastards. I applaud Jay and others who are truly touching lives instead of kicking their feet up on the judgement table as THEY decide what is good and just...how about women ministers? Thoughts? jcisthelight619 wrote: (Jan 22 2007 @ 07:09pm) That's absurd..truly absurd. I can see a HUGE difference..because I too know people who are athiest and agnostic. Here we go again...you are a fundamentalist that sits back, believing what you will and making shrude judgements - you believe that homosexuals are prostitutes or drunks...you clump them all into the same mound of sin...because the bible tells you so..again, a bible that clumped the word homosexual only 50 years ago. And so called book you mentioned in one of your earlier posts? By good ol' Josh? Might want to read how his work is under fire...and how he is not very good at explaining what exactly he DOES believe. Many other Christians have criticized his work. Oh, and I guess when you hold church and try to save others in a bar...it's not as good as your polished pews and shiney pulpit...the message just doesn't seem as valuable when a good ol' boy preacher in a fancy suit delivers the message...I mean, there sure isn't any mockery going on there...they are a polished as a new penny...and I would imaging would make it to heaven a whole lot quicker, don't you think? [quote=seniorsun] (Jan 22 2007 @ 06:42pm) You are quite right, but Jesus also talked much about sin and its penalty. He also drove people out of the temple with a whip because of their mockery of the holiness of the place. And Jesus NEVER said that we should completely accept others. He NEVER said that. He said that we should love them, but dont try to tell me that he said we should accept everything about people. That is so untrue. He said to turn away from our sin, to repent and go and sin no more. Though I really like the show, Jay seems to have forgotten that. Jesus went to the saloons and he talked with the prostitutes and showed them love. But he didnt sit there and take her services, trying to prove that he loved her. He didnt drink up the liquor in the saloons. He says over and over and over that there should be a difference in the lives of Christians. I dont see much of a difference in Jays actions and the actions of many agnostics and atheists that I know. So where is the difference? [quote=corykaren] (Jan 18 2007 @ 02:19am) I think you missed it but it not surprising, most Christians do, his ministry is about love and grace, the complete acceptance of others much like the example of Christ. Jay is one cool cat and I know the God I love is Proud of him. [[quote=dmaycock] (Jan 10 2007 @ 04:04pm) I recently found the show today, and after watching it I think it shows the struggle Jay is having with lots of things. Yet the whole show just amounts to gay theology - is jay nothing more than that? Two out of six episodes, now stemming into a third - great, he has a stance - but why must the ENTIRE SHOW be about that. If Jay wants to be known as pro-gay preaching, why not change the name of the church, write a book and go on the road with that - I don't think it is though The verse goes "Love others, as you would want to be loved". I myself would want someone to make sure I'm walking that narrow path he mentioned in episode three - accountability is important, it's what loving someone is about. I think we all have sin, but saying something is ok and declaring it's not a sin is a stance - regardless, Jay is a brother in Christ and I'd give him a hug if I saw him cuz that's what I'd want him to do to me, even though I think yes, it is a sin. Why does the ENTIRE SHOW need to be focused on that though. [/quote] [/quote] [/quote] [/quote]

RE: What Jay's ministry amounts to	Posted on Jan 22 2007 at 10:26pm by seniorsun
Oh Please. If by "fundamentalist", you mean someone who takes the Bible as absolute truth, then yes I am. But I would be welcome in many fundamentalist churches about as much as a black, gay cowboy is welcome at a KKK rally. I married a black woman, and I have a biracial daughter. I have a few piercings and used to wear a mohawk, until my hair started thinning, and I had to start shaving my head. So I would hardly fit in at Bob Jones University. You can feel however you wish. There are many things that I feel, or would like to be ok. But its not up to my feelings. Truth is based on Biblical scripture. I do not buy for a minute that people are born gay. There are thousands of psychologists and scientists that would agree and say that the so-called evidence for being born gay doesnt exist. As to the scripture that we dont adhere to today? Again, context. In the Old Testament, there were different types of law. There was the Mosaic Covenant, which includes the 10 commandments, there was civil law, which applied specifically to the tribes of Israel, and there was one other type of law, which I cannot remember right now. But it all depends on context. Jesus himself did not mention SPECIFICALLY homosexuality, but there were many other issues that he did not mention specifically either, but that 99% of Christians wouldnt question. I have never downed Jay. I have asked why he took the stand he has on certain issues, and said that to me, it seems contradictory to scripture. You are the one who has been on the attack dude. I have made no personal attacks on anyone, yet you seem to always be up in arms and attacking all those crazy fundamentalists, as you call them. I did say that I agreed totally with what Mark said in another post. I agree with him completely. You of course attacked him as well. But Mark made a great point to which you had no response. If the Bible is not the decider of issues for Christians, then what is? The way you feel? The way I feel? Whether I feel that homosexuality is wrong or not doesnt matter. What matters is, what would Jesus do? What did he teach? What does the Bible say on the matter? I will say to you like I said to Mark. If the Bible is wrong in one area, or up for debate, then how do I know that the Resurrection is true? Why should I believe in any of it? Personally, if the Bible is wrong in any area, then I will never darken the door of a church again, and I would become a complete and total hedonist. You guys keep arguing issues based on how you feel about them. I am going to stick with what the Bible says about it. jcisthelight619 wrote: (Jan 22 2007 @ 08:16pm) Well, that explains a lot. Look, you're fundamentalist...I am not in any way. I do believe there are consequences for sin..including perverted sexual acts..lustful acts...BOTH heterosexual and homosexual..that is what I feel the bible means...not love...so we can go around and around. People are born gay...that is what I believe..you cannot change my mind on it - and I have said...what about all the other scripture that we do not adhere to today? Yourlast comment...women didn't have very many rights back then-things have changed...so many churches don't allow women ministers - yet some do - is it a sin? No, because we have evolved - The fundamentalist is just as clever in blowing up what they want and looking over laws stated in the bible. Seems that you do pretty good in coming on here...downing Jay and then say, "what did I do?"...like I said before..that the typical fundamentalist way....spout off and then say, "now wait a minute, you're being awfully agressive and that is just not the way of the Lord"....I grew up Southern Baptist...I am very familiar with how it all works. So, say what you will how I am starting a fight..there sure isn't any love coming from you brother. seniorsun wrote: (Jan 22 2007 @ 08:03pm) Boy, you love to look for something to pick a fight over, ont you? Once again, you took what I said out of context. So what do you do with all the verses in the Bible that relate to sin and its consequences? Is there EVER a time when you think that people should judge others' behaviour? What about the instructions in the New Testament on how the church should deal with open sin? If you read those passages, its quite clear that the early church was told that open, unrepentent sin SHOULD be judged and handled in the right way. As far as women ministers go, really not sure because I havent read up on it much. Would prefer a male preacher, but thats just my preference. jcisthelight619 wrote: (Jan 22 2007 @ 07:37pm) Oh, with reply to your: "And Jesus NEVER said that we should completely accept others. He NEVER said that." Also,Jesus NEVER mentioned condemnation of homosexuality...NEVER said it. I think Jesus would be quite ashamed of how the fundamentalist have twisted his love and message...and as the Revolution sticker states...have been a bunch of judgmental bastards. I applaud Jay and others who are truly touching lives instead of kicking their feet up on the judgement table as THEY decide what is good and just...how about women ministers? Thoughts? [quote=jcisthelight619] (Jan 22 2007 @ 07:09pm) That's absurd..truly absurd. I can see a HUGE difference..because I too know people who are athiest and agnostic. Here we go again...you are a fundamentalist that sits back, believing what you will and making shrude judgements - you believe that homosexuals are prostitutes or drunks...you clump them all into the same mound of sin...because the bible tells you so..again, a bible that clumped the word homosexual only 50 years ago. And so called book you mentioned in one of your earlier posts? By good ol' Josh? Might want to read how his work is under fire...and how he is not very good at explaining what exactly he DOES believe. Many other Christians have criticized his work. Oh, and I guess when you hold church and try to save others in a bar...it's not as good as your polished pews and shiney pulpit...the message just doesn't seem as valuable when a good ol' boy preacher in a fancy suit delivers the message...I mean, there sure isn't any mockery going on there...they are a polished as a new penny...and I would imaging would make it to heaven a whole lot quicker, don't you think? [quote=seniorsun] (Jan 22 2007 @ 06:42pm) You are quite right, but Jesus also talked much about sin and its penalty. He also drove people out of the temple with a whip because of their mockery of the holiness of the place. And Jesus NEVER said that we should completely accept others. He NEVER said that. He said that we should love them, but dont try to tell me that he said we should accept everything about people. That is so untrue. He said to turn away from our sin, to repent and go and sin no more. Though I really like the show, Jay seems to have forgotten that. Jesus went to the saloons and he talked with the prostitutes and showed them love. But he didnt sit there and take her services, trying to prove that he loved her. He didnt drink up the liquor in the saloons. He says over and over and over that there should be a difference in the lives of Christians. I dont see much of a difference in Jays actions and the actions of many agnostics and atheists that I know. So where is the difference? [quote=corykaren] (Jan 18 2007 @ 02:19am) I think you missed it but it not surprising, most Christians do, his ministry is about love and grace, the complete acceptance of others much like the example of Christ. Jay is one cool cat and I know the God I love is Proud of him. [[quote=dmaycock] (Jan 10 2007 @ 04:04pm) I recently found the show today, and after watching it I think it shows the struggle Jay is having with lots of things. Yet the whole show just amounts to gay theology - is jay nothing more than that? Two out of six episodes, now stemming into a third - great, he has a stance - but why must the ENTIRE SHOW be about that. If Jay wants to be known as pro-gay preaching, why not change the name of the church, write a book and go on the road with that - I don't think it is though The verse goes "Love others, as you would want to be loved". I myself would want someone to make sure I'm walking that narrow path he mentioned in episode three - accountability is important, it's what loving someone is about. I think we all have sin, but saying something is ok and declaring it's not a sin is a stance - regardless, Jay is a brother in Christ and I'd give him a hug if I saw him cuz that's what I'd want him to do to me, even though I think yes, it is a sin. Why does the ENTIRE SHOW need to be focused on that though. [/quote] [/quote] [/quote] [/quote] [/quote]

RE: What Jay's ministry amounts to	Posted on Jan 22 2007 at 10:26pm by seniorsun
Oh Please. If by "fundamentalist", you mean someone who takes the Bible as absolute truth, then yes I am. But I would be welcome in many fundamentalist churches about as much as a black, gay cowboy is welcome at a KKK rally. I married a black woman, and I have a biracial daughter. I have a few piercings and used to wear a mohawk, until my hair started thinning, and I had to start shaving my head. So I would hardly fit in at Bob Jones University. You can feel however you wish. There are many things that I feel, or would like to be ok. But its not up to my feelings. Truth is based on Biblical scripture. I do not buy for a minute that people are born gay. There are thousands of psychologists and scientists that would agree and say that the so-called evidence for being born gay doesnt exist. As to the scripture that we dont adhere to today? Again, context. In the Old Testament, there were different types of law. There was the Mosaic Covenant, which includes the 10 commandments, there was civil law, which applied specifically to the tribes of Israel, and there was one other type of law, which I cannot remember right now. But it all depends on context. Jesus himself did not mention SPECIFICALLY homosexuality, but there were many other issues that he did not mention specifically either, but that 99% of Christians wouldnt question. I have never downed Jay. I have asked why he took the stand he has on certain issues, and said that to me, it seems contradictory to scripture. You are the one who has been on the attack dude. I have made no personal attacks on anyone, yet you seem to always be up in arms and attacking all those crazy fundamentalists, as you call them. I did say that I agreed totally with what Mark said in another post. I agree with him completely. You of course attacked him as well. But Mark made a great point to which you had no response. If the Bible is not the decider of issues for Christians, then what is? The way you feel? The way I feel? Whether I feel that homosexuality is wrong or not doesnt matter. What matters is, what would Jesus do? What did he teach? What does the Bible say on the matter? I will say to you like I said to Mark. If the Bible is wrong in one area, or up for debate, then how do I know that the Resurrection is true? Why should I believe in any of it? Personally, if the Bible is wrong in any area, then I will never darken the door of a church again, and I would become a complete and total hedonist. You guys keep arguing issues based on how you feel about them. I am going to stick with what the Bible says about it. jcisthelight619 wrote: (Jan 22 2007 @ 08:16pm) Well, that explains a lot. Look, you're fundamentalist...I am not in any way. I do believe there are consequences for sin..including perverted sexual acts..lustful acts...BOTH heterosexual and homosexual..that is what I feel the bible means...not love...so we can go around and around. People are born gay...that is what I believe..you cannot change my mind on it - and I have said...what about all the other scripture that we do not adhere to today? Yourlast comment...women didn't have very many rights back then-things have changed...so many churches don't allow women ministers - yet some do - is it a sin? No, because we have evolved - The fundamentalist is just as clever in blowing up what they want and looking over laws stated in the bible. Seems that you do pretty good in coming on here...downing Jay and then say, "what did I do?"...like I said before..that the typical fundamentalist way....spout off and then say, "now wait a minute, you're being awfully agressive and that is just not the way of the Lord"....I grew up Southern Baptist...I am very familiar with how it all works. So, say what you will how I am starting a fight..there sure isn't any love coming from you brother. seniorsun wrote: (Jan 22 2007 @ 08:03pm) Boy, you love to look for something to pick a fight over, ont you? Once again, you took what I said out of context. So what do you do with all the verses in the Bible that relate to sin and its consequences? Is there EVER a time when you think that people should judge others' behaviour? What about the instructions in the New Testament on how the church should deal with open sin? If you read those passages, its quite clear that the early church was told that open, unrepentent sin SHOULD be judged and handled in the right way. As far as women ministers go, really not sure because I havent read up on it much. Would prefer a male preacher, but thats just my preference. jcisthelight619 wrote: (Jan 22 2007 @ 07:37pm) Oh, with reply to your: "And Jesus NEVER said that we should completely accept others. He NEVER said that." Also,Jesus NEVER mentioned condemnation of homosexuality...NEVER said it. I think Jesus would be quite ashamed of how the fundamentalist have twisted his love and message...and as the Revolution sticker states...have been a bunch of judgmental bastards. I applaud Jay and others who are truly touching lives instead of kicking their feet up on the judgement table as THEY decide what is good and just...how about women ministers? Thoughts? [quote=jcisthelight619] (Jan 22 2007 @ 07:09pm) That's absurd..truly absurd. I can see a HUGE difference..because I too know people who are athiest and agnostic. Here we go again...you are a fundamentalist that sits back, believing what you will and making shrude judgements - you believe that homosexuals are prostitutes or drunks...you clump them all into the same mound of sin...because the bible tells you so..again, a bible that clumped the word homosexual only 50 years ago. And so called book you mentioned in one of your earlier posts? By good ol' Josh? Might want to read how his work is under fire...and how he is not very good at explaining what exactly he DOES believe. Many other Christians have criticized his work. Oh, and I guess when you hold church and try to save others in a bar...it's not as good as your polished pews and shiney pulpit...the message just doesn't seem as valuable when a good ol' boy preacher in a fancy suit delivers the message...I mean, there sure isn't any mockery going on there...they are a polished as a new penny...and I would imaging would make it to heaven a whole lot quicker, don't you think? [quote=seniorsun] (Jan 22 2007 @ 06:42pm) You are quite right, but Jesus also talked much about sin and its penalty. He also drove people out of the temple with a whip because of their mockery of the holiness of the place. And Jesus NEVER said that we should completely accept others. He NEVER said that. He said that we should love them, but dont try to tell me that he said we should accept everything about people. That is so untrue. He said to turn away from our sin, to repent and go and sin no more. Though I really like the show, Jay seems to have forgotten that. Jesus went to the saloons and he talked with the prostitutes and showed them love. But he didnt sit there and take her services, trying to prove that he loved her. He didnt drink up the liquor in the saloons. He says over and over and over that there should be a difference in the lives of Christians. I dont see much of a difference in Jays actions and the actions of many agnostics and atheists that I know. So where is the difference? [quote=corykaren] (Jan 18 2007 @ 02:19am) I think you missed it but it not surprising, most Christians do, his ministry is about love and grace, the complete acceptance of others much like the example of Christ. Jay is one cool cat and I know the God I love is Proud of him. [[quote=dmaycock] (Jan 10 2007 @ 04:04pm) I recently found the show today, and after watching it I think it shows the struggle Jay is having with lots of things. Yet the whole show just amounts to gay theology - is jay nothing more than that? Two out of six episodes, now stemming into a third - great, he has a stance - but why must the ENTIRE SHOW be about that. If Jay wants to be known as pro-gay preaching, why not change the name of the church, write a book and go on the road with that - I don't think it is though The verse goes "Love others, as you would want to be loved". I myself would want someone to make sure I'm walking that narrow path he mentioned in episode three - accountability is important, it's what loving someone is about. I think we all have sin, but saying something is ok and declaring it's not a sin is a stance - regardless, Jay is a brother in Christ and I'd give him a hug if I saw him cuz that's what I'd want him to do to me, even though I think yes, it is a sin. Why does the ENTIRE SHOW need to be focused on that though. [/quote] [/quote] [/quote] [/quote] [/quote]

RE: What Jay's ministry amounts to	Posted on Jan 22 2007 at 11:08pm by stavelaker
Seniorsun, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty certain that Jay has made a choice not to drink. And if I remember the episodes correctly, you never see Jay with a beer. I'm sorry if smoking offends you, but your being offended by it does not make it sinful. Also, I can think of nothing that took place on the show that would make your analogy about utilizing a prostitute's services even remotely accurate.

RE: What Jay's ministry amounts to	Posted on Jan 22 2007 at 7:39pm by seniorsun
I am not going to argue with you, post after post. The only judgements I make are based on scripture. And yes, I believe that there are certain sins that God sees in a different light than he does others, and homosexuality is another. You can disagree with McDowell all you want. Never said his word was equal to the Bible. Makes NO difference at all where you hold church. I never said that. You once again are putting words in my mouth and twisting what I said out of context, as I have seen you do in many other posts. What I said was Jesus ministered in bars and to prostitutes. But he didnt hook up with the prostitutes to show them love. Sorry, but when I see Jay preaching while holding his beer and sucking on his cig, it seems to be a bit of a contradiction. But thats just me. Those things do not make him a Christian, but what do you do with the hundreds of verses in the Bible that talk about holiness, Godliness, and separation from the world? Oh, thats right. You dont believe in the Bible as being absolute truth. I already know the first thing you are going to mention is Jesus turning the water into wine. What about the hundreds of Bible verses that warn against alcohol? I dont believe that having a drink is a mortal sin, but I do believe that pastors are held to a even higher standard of living, and the whole preaching with a smoke and a beer just seems very odd to me. jcisthelight619 wrote: (Jan 22 2007 @ 07:09pm) That's absurd..truly absurd. I can see a HUGE difference..because I too know people who are athiest and agnostic. Here we go again...you are a fundamentalist that sits back, believing what you will and making shrude judgements - you believe that homosexuals are prostitutes or drunks...you clump them all into the same mound of sin...because the bible tells you so..again, a bible that clumped the word homosexual only 50 years ago. And so called book you mentioned in one of your earlier posts? By good ol' Josh? Might want to read how his work is under fire...and how he is not very good at explaining what exactly he DOES believe. Many other Christians have criticized his work. Oh, and I guess when you hold church and try to save others in a bar...it's not as good as your polished pews and shiney pulpit...the message just doesn't seem as valuable when a good ol' boy preacher in a fancy suit delivers the message...I mean, there sure isn't any mockery going on there...they are a polished as a new penny...and I would imaging would make it to heaven a whole lot quicker, don't you think? seniorsun wrote: (Jan 22 2007 @ 06:42pm) You are quite right, but Jesus also talked much about sin and its penalty. He also drove people out of the temple with a whip because of their mockery of the holiness of the place. And Jesus NEVER said that we should completely accept others. He NEVER said that. He said that we should love them, but dont try to tell me that he said we should accept everything about people. That is so untrue. He said to turn away from our sin, to repent and go and sin no more. Though I really like the show, Jay seems to have forgotten that. Jesus went to the saloons and he talked with the prostitutes and showed them love. But he didnt sit there and take her services, trying to prove that he loved her. He didnt drink up the liquor in the saloons. He says over and over and over that there should be a difference in the lives of Christians. I dont see much of a difference in Jays actions and the actions of many agnostics and atheists that I know. So where is the difference? corykaren wrote: (Jan 18 2007 @ 02:19am) I think you missed it but it not surprising, most Christians do, his ministry is about love and grace, the complete acceptance of others much like the example of Christ. Jay is one cool cat and I know the God I love is Proud of him. [[quote=dmaycock] (Jan 10 2007 @ 04:04pm) I recently found the show today, and after watching it I think it shows the struggle Jay is having with lots of things. Yet the whole show just amounts to gay theology - is jay nothing more than that? Two out of six episodes, now stemming into a third - great, he has a stance - but why must the ENTIRE SHOW be about that. If Jay wants to be known as pro-gay preaching, why not change the name of the church, write a book and go on the road with that - I don't think it is though The verse goes "Love others, as you would want to be loved". I myself would want someone to make sure I'm walking that narrow path he mentioned in episode three - accountability is important, it's what loving someone is about. I think we all have sin, but saying something is ok and declaring it's not a sin is a stance - regardless, Jay is a brother in Christ and I'd give him a hug if I saw him cuz that's what I'd want him to do to me, even though I think yes, it is a sin. Why does the ENTIRE SHOW need to be focused on that though. [/quote] [/quote]

RE: What Jay's ministry amounts to	Posted on Jan 22 2007 at 7:49pm by jcisthelight619
And post after post I have seen idiotic judgemental rhetoric....which this post alone just makes me laugh. Thanks for the comic relief. Ignorance is not always bliss - as you have proven with this post...it's just plain sad. I didn't say that I disagree with McDowell..I said MANY people disagree(including me). You are right..there is no need to argue...you are fundamentalist, judgmental puppet..it's been enjoyable to see yet another of you put down someone that is sharing Christ's love. It shows even more why I am so thankful I am not like you anymore....Christian yes, religious right fundamentalist..NO -THANK GOD. No wonder you think Mark's post is brilliant as well...just plain sad... seniorsun wrote: (Jan 22 2007 @ 07:39pm) I am not going to argue with you, post after post. The only judgements I make are based on scripture. And yes, I believe that there are certain sins that God sees in a different light than he does others, and homosexuality is another. You can disagree with McDowell all you want. Never said his word was equal to the Bible. Makes NO difference at all where you hold church. I never said that. You once again are putting words in my mouth and twisting what I said out of context, as I have seen you do in many other posts. What I said was Jesus ministered in bars and to prostitutes. But he didnt hook up with the prostitutes to show them love. Sorry, but when I see Jay preaching while holding his beer and sucking on his cig, it seems to be a bit of a contradiction. But thats just me. Those things do not make him a Christian, but what do you do with the hundreds of verses in the Bible that talk about holiness, Godliness, and separation from the world? Oh, thats right. You dont believe in the Bible as being absolute truth. I already know the first thing you are going to mention is Jesus turning the water into wine. What about the hundreds of Bible verses that warn against alcohol? I dont believe that having a drink is a mortal sin, but I do believe that pastors are held to a even higher standard of living, and the whole preaching with a smoke and a beer just seems very odd to me. jcisthelight619 wrote: (Jan 22 2007 @ 07:09pm) That's absurd..truly absurd. I can see a HUGE difference..because I too know people who are athiest and agnostic. Here we go again...you are a fundamentalist that sits back, believing what you will and making shrude judgements - you believe that homosexuals are prostitutes or drunks...you clump them all into the same mound of sin...because the bible tells you so..again, a bible that clumped the word homosexual only 50 years ago. And so called book you mentioned in one of your earlier posts? By good ol' Josh? Might want to read how his work is under fire...and how he is not very good at explaining what exactly he DOES believe. Many other Christians have criticized his work. Oh, and I guess when you hold church and try to save others in a bar...it's not as good as your polished pews and shiney pulpit...the message just doesn't seem as valuable when a good ol' boy preacher in a fancy suit delivers the message...I mean, there sure isn't any mockery going on there...they are a polished as a new penny...and I would imaging would make it to heaven a whole lot quicker, don't you think? seniorsun wrote: (Jan 22 2007 @ 06:42pm) You are quite right, but Jesus also talked much about sin and its penalty. He also drove people out of the temple with a whip because of their mockery of the holiness of the place. And Jesus NEVER said that we should completely accept others. He NEVER said that. He said that we should love them, but dont try to tell me that he said we should accept everything about people. That is so untrue. He said to turn away from our sin, to repent and go and sin no more. Though I really like the show, Jay seems to have forgotten that. Jesus went to the saloons and he talked with the prostitutes and showed them love. But he didnt sit there and take her services, trying to prove that he loved her. He didnt drink up the liquor in the saloons. He says over and over and over that there should be a difference in the lives of Christians. I dont see much of a difference in Jays actions and the actions of many agnostics and atheists that I know. So where is the difference? [quote=corykaren] (Jan 18 2007 @ 02:19am) I think you missed it but it not surprising, most Christians do, his ministry is about love and grace, the complete acceptance of others much like the example of Christ. Jay is one cool cat and I know the God I love is Proud of him. [[quote=dmaycock] (Jan 10 2007 @ 04:04pm) I recently found the show today, and after watching it I think it shows the struggle Jay is having with lots of things. Yet the whole show just amounts to gay theology - is jay nothing more than that? Two out of six episodes, now stemming into a third - great, he has a stance - but why must the ENTIRE SHOW be about that. If Jay wants to be known as pro-gay preaching, why not change the name of the church, write a book and go on the road with that - I don't think it is though The verse goes "Love others, as you would want to be loved". I myself would want someone to make sure I'm walking that narrow path he mentioned in episode three - accountability is important, it's what loving someone is about. I think we all have sin, but saying something is ok and declaring it's not a sin is a stance - regardless, Jay is a brother in Christ and I'd give him a hug if I saw him cuz that's what I'd want him to do to me, even though I think yes, it is a sin. Why does the ENTIRE SHOW need to be focused on that though. [/quote] [/quote] [/quote]

RE: What Jay's ministry amounts to	Posted on Jan 24 2007 at 11:36pm by corykaren
Seniorsun Food for thought, love your God with all your heart and love your neighbor as your self. It’s not your job to judge, don’t let another’s actions concern you, exercise love and acceptance and I’m sure you will please your God, it’s just that simple bro. It all comes down to motives, why is it so important to you? Is your zeal motivated by love? I have found it to be true in my life that any time I am being judgmental over anthers actions my motives were not pure it is easy to hate and so beautiful to love. jcisthelight619 wrote: (Jan 22 2007 @ 07:49pm) And post after post I have seen idiotic judgemental rhetoric....which this post alone just makes me laugh. Thanks for the comic relief. Ignorance is not always bliss - as you have proven with this post...it's just plain sad. I didn't say that I disagree with McDowell..I said MANY people disagree(including me). You are right..there is no need to argue...you are fundamentalist, judgmental puppet..it's been enjoyable to see yet another of you put down someone that is sharing Christ's love. It shows even more why I am so thankful I am not like you anymore....Christian yes, religious right fundamentalist..NO -THANK GOD. No wonder you think Mark's post is brilliant as well...just plain sad... seniorsun wrote: (Jan 22 2007 @ 07:39pm) I am not going to argue with you, post after post. The only judgements I make are based on scripture. And yes, I believe that there are certain sins that God sees in a different light than he does others, and homosexuality is another. You can disagree with McDowell all you want. Never said his word was equal to the Bible. Makes NO difference at all where you hold church. I never said that. You once again are putting words in my mouth and twisting what I said out of context, as I have seen you do in many other posts. What I said was Jesus ministered in bars and to prostitutes. But he didnt hook up with the prostitutes to show them love. Sorry, but when I see Jay preaching while holding his beer and sucking on his cig, it seems to be a bit of a contradiction. But thats just me. Those things do not make him a Christian, but what do you do with the hundreds of verses in the Bible that talk about holiness, Godliness, and separation from the world? Oh, thats right. You dont believe in the Bible as being absolute truth. I already know the first thing you are going to mention is Jesus turning the water into wine. What about the hundreds of Bible verses that warn against alcohol? I dont believe that having a drink is a mortal sin, but I do believe that pastors are held to a even higher standard of living, and the whole preaching with a smoke and a beer just seems very odd to me. jcisthelight619 wrote: (Jan 22 2007 @ 07:09pm) That's absurd..truly absurd. I can see a HUGE difference..because I too know people who are athiest and agnostic. Here we go again...you are a fundamentalist that sits back, believing what you will and making shrude judgements - you believe that homosexuals are prostitutes or drunks...you clump them all into the same mound of sin...because the bible tells you so..again, a bible that clumped the word homosexual only 50 years ago. And so called book you mentioned in one of your earlier posts? By good ol' Josh? Might want to read how his work is under fire...and how he is not very good at explaining what exactly he DOES believe. Many other Christians have criticized his work. Oh, and I guess when you hold church and try to save others in a bar...it's not as good as your polished pews and shiney pulpit...the message just doesn't seem as valuable when a good ol' boy preacher in a fancy suit delivers the message...I mean, there sure isn't any mockery going on there...they are a polished as a new penny...and I would imaging would make it to heaven a whole lot quicker, don't you think? [quote=seniorsun] (Jan 22 2007 @ 06:42pm) You are quite right, but Jesus also talked much about sin and its penalty. He also drove people out of the temple with a whip because of their mockery of the holiness of the place. And Jesus NEVER said that we should completely accept others. He NEVER said that. He said that we should love them, but dont try to tell me that he said we should accept everything about people. That is so untrue. He said to turn away from our sin, to repent and go and sin no more. Though I really like the show, Jay seems to have forgotten that. Jesus went to the saloons and he talked with the prostitutes and showed them love. But he didnt sit there and take her services, trying to prove that he loved her. He didnt drink up the liquor in the saloons. He says over and over and over that there should be a difference in the lives of Christians. I dont see much of a difference in Jays actions and the actions of many agnostics and atheists that I know. So where is the difference? [quote=corykaren] (Jan 18 2007 @ 02:19am) I think you missed it but it not surprising, most Christians do, his ministry is about love and grace, the complete acceptance of others much like the example of Christ. Jay is one cool cat and I know the God I love is Proud of him. [[quote=dmaycock] (Jan 10 2007 @ 04:04pm) I recently found the show today, and after watching it I think it shows the struggle Jay is having with lots of things. Yet the whole show just amounts to gay theology - is jay nothing more than that? Two out of six episodes, now stemming into a third - great, he has a stance - but why must the ENTIRE SHOW be about that. If Jay wants to be known as pro-gay preaching, why not change the name of the church, write a book and go on the road with that - I don't think it is though The verse goes "Love others, as you would want to be loved". I myself would want someone to make sure I'm walking that narrow path he mentioned in episode three - accountability is important, it's what loving someone is about. I think we all have sin, but saying something is ok and declaring it's not a sin is a stance - regardless, Jay is a brother in Christ and I'd give him a hug if I saw him cuz that's what I'd want him to do to me, even though I think yes, it is a sin. Why does the ENTIRE SHOW need to be focused on that though. [/quote] [/quote] [/quote] [/quote]