jwhetnc wrote:

(Jan 01 2007 @ 09:02am)

I agree with mark. Also, I submit to you my thoughts concerning the bible. I believe that the bible is a written historically based account provided through the ages by "men" who felt inspired by God. It provides us history and may be considered a guide. However, consider that nothing ever produced by "man" can be without the influence or opinions of the writer... no matter how inspired of God or how good his/her intentions. Also consider the number of times that the bible has been translated. How can we possibly believe that the full intent of God was brought forth in every single word and line of scripture?



Because of this, I believe each of us must search our hearts when reading the word, and try to discern what Jesus said and did, and what God's intent is.



To the best of my knowledge Jesus loved everyone and advised strongly against judging others, and I do not recall any mention at any time of him condemning homosexuals.

sadpreacher wrote:

(Jan 04 2007 @ 08:19pm)

I also must agree with Mark. I was raised a Catholic and I knew early on that the Word being taught me was nothing short of one person's interpretation of the bible. I left my Christian roots and became what I thought was agnostic but deep in my heart I still believed in God and the Christ. I cannot recall the exact biblical quotes that denounce homosexualtiy but in my later years I began to wonder about the bible. I have watched numerous scientific shows and read text that explains when the New Testament was written: 80-100 years following the crucifiction. What does this tell me? The New Testament was written by men too young to have witnessed Christ's ministry and miracles for themselves. So it is only logical that there must be some human twist to the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. I have read where the Catholic Church has dubbed the gospels of Phillip, Judas, and Mary of Magdala aside from writings from the Dead Sea Scrolls as gnostic writings. Each proven to be authentic. Why is that? What would make the heresey? I believe it was done so as not to bring change to a book that has stood as the guide for Christianity for two millenia. The last thing Rome needs is a major change as they are quite comfortable with things the way they are. Christ states time and time again that the Kingdom will be open to all that accept Jesus Christ as their savior and practice Christianity as it was meant to be. Heaven is open to all. If a homosexual accepts Christ and lives a righteous life, he/she will be permitted to enter the Kingdom of God.



Do we denounce Judiasm, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism as a mortal sin because the bear false witness to another God? I don't think so. To err is human. And I believe that God will not send homosexuals to hell simply because of gender preference. So in essence I am saying that the bible needs to be interpreted by each person who believes, and the word "belief" is what is most important. Christ damned the Sanhedrin, Saudacees, and Pharisees for their misintepretation of the Word, their corruption of the Word and faith. Is there really much difference between that and what Rome does in it's interpretation of the Word? The bible is an account of God's glory and the ministry of Christ. Moses was given the scriptures as a "rulebook" for God's grace yet Christ sort of rearranges the guidelines opening the gates to heaven for all of mankind and not just the "chosen" Jews.



Think about it.

mark.pierpont wrote:

(Dec 31 2006 @ 06:49pm)

Without even beginning the discussion as to what the Bible actually says -- and there is MUCH to discuss on that -- its not as crystal clear as some would have us believe. Remember, we're actually just discussing about 6 or 7 passages -- all of which have many differing opinions or interpretations. But I digressed...



The more pertinent question is this, when did Jesus ever tell us that when he went away he would send us 66 books that would be our only rule of faith and practice? Answer: NEVER Why? He didn't know? He didn't want to establish this as the foundation of his church?

EXACTLY! He said to the Pharisees, who were masters of the written word, (and I paraphrase) You search the scriptures diligently to find the truth, but you ignore that the scriptures tell you about ME. I am the...truth." Jesus never ever told any of his disciples even a hint about a book that would be their guide. Religions have books. God is alive. That was his message. That is his message. "You have no need that anyone teach you anything, for when He, the Spirit of Truth is come, HE WILL GUIDE YOU INTO ALL TRUTH." That was what Jesus left us with: "I will not leave you comfortless, I will send you my Spirit and he will lead you into all truth." Not a book. Not a rule. SPIRIT. Those who know -- know. Those who don't try to find knowledge in a book that can never contain God.



Surprise! I love the scriptures, just as Jesus did. They reveal God and the struggle men and women have had through the ages to know and experience God and to enter into the Glorious Dream (kingdom, if you please) of God.



The whole question raised here dissolves in the presence and experience of God. Instead of dogmatism, we rise and grow to more of God. To love. To listening. To understanding.



Being gay isn't a sin. Sin is falling short of God's glory, which we all do. Frankly, in the light of God, gay, straight, bi -- they are all just words. And words don't define God. God is the word. Not the Bible. We need to stop worshipping a book, and worship the eternal, living, spirit of God. The Bible is the final authority? Listen to yourself if you say those words. That, my friend,is idolatry according to the very text that you bow before!



(By the way, your interpretation of Romans 1 is terribly flawed. Nowhere does it speak of homosexuality as a cause or a first action -- no matter how you read it -- the first cause is selfishness and then (as Paul may have seen it) same sex attraction came as a CONSEQUENCE -- it was NOT the sin. Read it again, and take off the "glasses" you have been given. You will never win a same-sex attracted person to friendship with God until you do.)

melissaelainelove wrote:

(Dec 31 2006 @ 02:55pm)

The word of God teaches us that homosexuality is wrong. Read the end of Romans 1. See, the problem is not that churches are anti-gay or that being gay is the worst possible sing, being gay is wrong. The Bible teaches that. If you are a Christian and you follow the word of God, you cannot say that homosexuality is not a sin because it is. The problem is when Christian's judge homosexuality in a sinful manner. Each time homosexuality is mentioned, so is other sins that every one of us our guilty of. The issue is not "is homosexuality okay?", the issue is the heart. We are ALL sinners. We all fall short and have sin in our lives. The question is, have we confessed Jesus Christ as Lord of our hearts and whatever struggle we may have (homosexuality, cussing, sex in general, drugs, being hateful, mocking, etc), are we striving to make changes? Do we realize it IS sin instead of making excuses? God doesn't tell us something is a sin but say it's okay. He tells us what is sin so that we can repent.



[quote=jrgtampabay] (Dec 30 2006 @ 09:57am)

Why are most Christian churches anti-gay? Is it because the Bible teaches that homosexuality is a sin, or is it because our pastors teach us that the Bible teaches us that homosexuality is a sin? Are we truly following the word of God, or are we following the beliefs of our preacher?

bluewolf373 wrote:

(Jan 09 2007 @ 08:15pm)

Wow.....I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. Seriously now. Your arguement against gay people is ludicrous. Number one, LGBT people make up nowhere near 51 percent of the population...it's estimated that we make up about 10 percent. Not only that, but since when did we have a shortage of babies? Last time I checked the world was over populated, not underpopulated. IMHO gay people serve as a sort of population control....if we had ten percent more babies in the world imagine how much bigger the population would be...there's already a lack of resources in many areas. But that's beside the point. Even if for some reason more and more people started being born gay and the percentage magically got up to 51 percent, the world would not die out. Gay people can also have children if they want them. It's not biologically impossible. There are surrogate parents, sperm donors, etc. Many of us want to have families just as much as straight couples do....too bad it's so hard to be able to do that safely and legally.



Thanks for the laugh.

tactickid wrote:

(Jan 09 2007 @ 01:20pm)

I agree. All sins are the same in the eyes of God. The church anti-gay? I don't think so. But the church needs more training. The church sins too and so the church focus on one or two sins to yield the focus of their sins somewhere else. I don't think this is intentional but is human. Christians or no Christians we all do it. It is not right though. We need to repent in order to receive grace.



The Lord commanded us to preach the Gospel (not to exalt one or two sins) and He deals with the sin from inside out. The sinner then needs support to bear and leave the sin (if true repentance occur). It is not easy. But the church is so inmature that judges and accuse sometimes.



Some Leaders exagerates the sin of homosexuality but they themselves lie, amd commercialize the gospel and oppress the weak. They use the offering money for their vacations and houses and cars. I am sure you know what I am talking about. That is sin too. same as homosexuality. Both the homosexual and the corrupted Leader should sit together and repent and pray for forgiveness and invite the prostitutes, the liars, the proudful, the opportunists, the jeaulous, the ambitious, to repent together of all those sins that cannot be seen like homosexuality.



On the other hand, the reason why homosexuality is consider, in the human eye, a more horrendous sin is because it endangers humanity as we know it. This sin attempts to destroy the plan of God to fill the world, it executes the extermination of humanity. Imagine if 51% of the world was gay or lesbian, we will have less babies every year. Population will start to decrease, opposing a direct command from God to be fruitful. It is the cesation of life, and that is horrible.



I think Mr. Jay Bakker is exercizing the same sin, trying to portrait himself as MORE LOVING than the church. Exalting the church sin of being judgemental and he on the other hand is so loving. So he is better than the church and therefore closer to God.



This is not the way. The corruption of the church is biblical, but it should draw us closer to God when the church rejects us because we do not fear to tell their sin, and we should not waste our time attacking her but pray for her. And there is the persecuted church also that we can help instead. Take my advice Jay.