The bluntness of the conversations and life
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The bluntness of the conversations and life Posted on Nov 26 2007 at 10:53pm by in both episode 1 and 2, the conversations were a bit blunt, were'nt they?
No beating around the bush.
Have you ever seen someone shoot a pig such as was done? Or the way everyone was there?
I grew up in the UP. I remember our dog having puppies..8 of them. We gave away as many as we could, but there were 4 left. My dad told me to put them in a box. He grabbed his rifle and we went to the local dump. Each was shot. We buried them. It seems crude and almost inhumane, if you will, but that was the way it was done, much like the shooting of the pig. It wasn't done maliciously. It was understood that we couldn't take care of them properly, and no one else wanted them or need them.
You can tell by those 60 minutes or so of dialog and life, that the people up in the UP live a life much different than most parts of the USA. Its striking. While watching it, though, it brought back many memories of similar situations in my childhood
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RE: The bluntness of the conversations and life Posted on Nov 27 2007 at 9:32am by I thought it was a very refreshing show--real people being real people. They didn't edit it into oblivion, they didn't try to dress it up to make for "drama", didn't whitewash it for "pc-ness". It reminded me that there are still some people just living their lives--they way they look, act, and talk--not trying to be something or somebody else! -
RE: The bluntness of the conversations and life Posted on Dec 2 2007 at 11:13am by I agree. the worst part is my daily life is the exact opposite of that. Watching this show makes me wonder how the hell my life parallels sometimes synergystically with half the stuff you see in movies and TV. I wish I had friends that were more authentic in personality and trying to be something they arent. RE: The bluntness of the conversations and life Posted on Dec 27 2007 at 11:05pm by I felt the same way while watching this series. I loved how real and completely normal all of the characters were. The whole thing was so endearing and the people were so honest and open and it made me feel sad that I don't live in a place like Watersmeet.
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RE: The bluntness of the conversations and life Posted on Dec 7 2007 at 11:06pm by I'm reading all of these wonderful comments that everybody has been posting. I have to say I"m not from the UP, but I do know some wonderful full-blooded Nimrods from there. We have been watching Nimrod Nation, and I have to say as sad as it was for the pig, that is not what got me.I can't believe some of the things that were said in this documentary,yet the only one that has been mentioned is the pig incident. I can't believe no one has mentioned the school principal's(aka superintenent,county commissioner,and coach)racial remarks about the Native Americans "not knowing what they are talking about". This coming from a public office official just surprised me. He should be sensitive to and more aware of those he is supposed to represent and educate. -
RE: The bluntness of the conversations and life Posted on Dec 8 2007 at 1:05pm by Unfortunately, that is part of life everywhere, even in small towns. there will always be racial differences and people who engage their mouth before they engage their brain. It may have been unintentional or taken out of context due to editing, but we will never really know. RE: The bluntness of the conversations and life Posted on Dec 10 2007 at 6:28pm by This is 2007
Being as the school principal, he has a big impact on everyones life in watersmeet. I believe he should be One on the People that shouldnt say racial slurs taken that hes teaching these children whats right and wrong before they are send into the real world. Juss shows because people who think they got power can throw what they want anywhere and nothing get done about it...
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Racism against Native Americans in U.P. RE: The bluntness of the conversations and life Posted on Dec 13 2007 at 1:48pm by You are both correct landscraggz and watersmeet1,
As a longtime news reporter in the Upper Peninsula with extensive family ties to northern Michigan, I can tell you racism against Native Americans up here is widely under-reported by the media.
Some members of the U.P. media want to deny it exists or say its minor.
When in fact it's entrenched. I feel some of the racism is due more to lack of knowledge and education rather than actual hatred.
Although, U.P. residents who truly believe that racism doesn't exist in would be shocked what is said by some whites in their local bar - when they are sure cameras are not rolling.
U.P. land and fishing rights issues are among the hot topics that divide the two races.
For example, I believe the Nimrod coach forgot about or overlooked the achievement of the Native American player - but was reminded when his son approached the same milestone.
The disparity of media local coverage aside, it was obvious that the separate awards ceremonies were noticeably different in timing and enthusiasm or lack thereof.
Only the coach knows in his heart whether he used his influence or contacts to obtain news coverage for his son but did not do the same for the Native American player
As volunteer media advisor for the Upper Peninsula based non-profit Turtle Island Project, it's been a challenge to get the media to publish our goals - one of the main objectives is addressing racism against First Nations peoples in Michigan's pristine U.P.
While based in Munising along Lake Superior, the Turtle Island Project (TIP) works with tribes across the U.S.
For example, this Saturday, Dec. 15, 2007 is the second TIP free benefit concert for the White Buffalo Calf Womans Society in Mission, South Dakota - the first and oldest domestic violence shelter on an American Indian reservation.
This concert will help address the shocking number of teen suicides on that Lakota reservation that is also under-reported by the mainstream media (18 deaths, 500 attempted suicides in the past two years).
The Dec. 15 concert is in Munising. The first was held in August 2007 when two U.P. folk bands - White Water and Duo Borealis - traveled to South Dakota. Since that event three more Rosebud teen have killed themselves.
TIP will hold its second Native American Roundtable and National Conference in August 2008 with well-known Native American leaders from around the country.
All TIP events are free.
Everyone is invited, although we ask First Nations peoples to set the agenda without interference from whites.
The TIP founders are Rev. Dr. Lynn Hubbard of Munising, MI, a Lutheran pastor who has served in many locations including Chicago and the Virgin Islands; and Rev. Dr. George Cairns of Chesterton, Indiana, a Chicago Theological Seminary research professor and an United Church of Christ minister.
For more information or contact info for the TIP founders call 906-475-5068 or email:
TurtleIslandProject@charter.net
TIP plans and goals are too numerous to mention here, so please check out our websites/videos.
Turtle Island Project main website:
http://www.turtleislandproject.org
http://groups.msn.com/WhisperingTurtle
http://turtleislandproject.wordpress.com/
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Turtle Island TV - Video sites:
(blipTV)
http://turtleislandtv.blip.tv/
(youtube)
http://www.youtube.com/MunisingWhiteHorse
(myspace)
http://www.myspace.com/TurtleIslandProject
Non-profit MI Turtle Island Project main website: [www.turtleislandproject.org]
TIP MSN website: [groups.msn.com]
TIP blog/news stories on WordPress: [turtleislandproject.wordpress.com]
Turtle Island TV videos on bliptv: [turtleislandtv.blip.tv]
TIP TV on youtube: [www.youtube.com]
Turtle Island Project myspace page: [www.myspace.com]
Important TIP videos on racism:
TIP founder warns meeting of religious scholars about consequences of racism/spiritual terrorism against Native Americans in August 2007:
http://blip.tv/file/337645/
TIP founder on bordertown racism on Native America Calling national radio talk show in August 2007:
Part 1:
http://blip.tv/file/373938
Part 2:
http://blip.tv/file/373914
Report on first TIP Native American roundtable in U.P. in Sept. 2007:
http://blip.tv/file/397295
Racism warning by TIP founder at spirit scholar conference: [blip.tv]
NA Calling radio show on bordertown racism pt. 1: [blip.tv]
NA Calling radio show on bordertown racism pt. 2: [blip.tv]
First TIP Native American Roundtable in Sept. 2007: [blip.tv]
Upper Peninsula religious leaders from 9 faith traditions with 140 churches/temples are concerned about the racism against Native Americans and the environment.
I am also the volunteer media advisor for two other non-profit U.P. projects involving these religious leaders, Native Americans, the environment and racism.
The Manoomin Project (Native American guides teach at-risk teens about racism and other social issues while restoring/planting wild rice in the U.P.):
http://www.indiancountry.com/content.cfm?id=1096416108
http://www.cedartreeinstitute.org/wildrice2007.html
The Earth Keeper Initiative:
http://www.lakesuperior.com/online/295/295award.html
http://www.cedartreeinstitute.org/lsmagazine07.html
Videos on both projects:
http://earthkeepers.blip.tv/
http://www.youtube.com/yoopernewsman
Indian Country Today story on wild rice project in U.P.: [www.indiancountry.com]
Fourth planting of U.P. wild rice held in Nov. 2007: [www.cedartreeinstitute.org]
Earth Keepers projects honored by Lake Superior Magazine in Nov. 2007: [www.lakesuperior.com]
Earth Keepers honored and history of projects: [www.cedartreeinstitute.org]
Earth Keeper TV on bliptv: [earthkeepers.blip.tv]
Earth Keeper Televison/videos on youtube: [www.youtube.com]-
RE: Racism against Native Americans in U.P. RE: The bluntness of the conversations and life Posted on Dec 13 2007 at 5:25pm by I believe a lot of people feel they are not racsist, but still make comments such as Mr. Peterson made. Its pretty common actually, from all races, not just the whites.
Its said matter of factly, without thinking...its ingrained, a part of the person. I did it myself one day. I was talking to a friend of mine who was cheaping out on buying something, and I called him a Jew ...well, he was, and it hurt his feeling a lot...becausee I was using the stereoptypical phrase about Jews being frugal or cheap and trying to bargain everything down.
What's needed is sensitivity and diversity training. In school....at an early age. Al teacher and public officials should have it as well. We all need it. I would bet most of us say things just off the cuff and do not really think about what it means to someone else.
Its no different in religious affairs. Did anyone think it may hurt someone that the whole school is celebrating Christmas and you don't because you're of a different faith ?
I grew up about 2o miles from the reservation in Baraga. There were Native Americans that came to town. We talked. I don't remember anyone ever saying anything derogatory about them. No one much though about the fact they were Native, anymore than they thought about the fact the guy down the street was French or whatever. We all pretty much went about our business.
I picture Watersmeet being pretty much the same. If you didn't notice, the white guys rag each other just as much. Its the nature of it. I'm not condoning what was said, but I can see why. It doesn't make it right, but I doubt it was meant to be malicious. Was there a bias in the award ceremony. It appeared to be so. There was really no reason why he couldn't have domne the ceremony together or called the paper and asked a reporter to be there for both. Was it done becasue the one kid was Native or becasue the other was his son?
Maybe someone should have a sitdown with the coach and discuss the issue....was that done?
Its pretty obvious to me there are a lot of other problems going on in that town. Alcohol,...the kids have mouths worse than drunken sailors. I'm surprised a lot of that was even shown on TV. I think , as a town member, I would be a bit embarrased and concerned.RE: Racism against Native Americans in U.P. RE: The bluntness of the conversations and life Posted on Dec 13 2007 at 6:16pm by I agree with everyting you state davidso1,
While some racism is truly based in hatred or ignorance, I do think some racist statements are just people running off at the mouth or repeating steriotypical phrases. But that doesn't make it right.
I agree that a diversity education program is needed and is easy to start.
For example - this week a school district in South Dakota entered into a consent decree - while not admitting guilt in allegations of bias and racism against Native American students - the school system is setting up a program to battle intolerance.
Here are some of the key educational parts of the agreement - and I suggest that Watersmeet, all U.P. school and other districts across the country consider implementing some of these ideas while tayloring them for the problem at hand in their respective area:
Among the key terms of the settlement are the following:
School officials will not require students to write statements that can be used to prosecute them in juvenile or criminal court;
The district will hire a full-time ombudsperson, nominated by the collective Native American community, to serve as a liaison between Native American families and school officials, especially on disciplinary issues;
An educational expert will work with school officials and Native American families to set benchmarks on improving Native American graduation rates, reducing levels of suspension and school-based arrests, and improving the overall climate for Native American students, among other goals; the expert will also conduct periodic on-site visits to ensure compliance with the agreement and monitor progress toward the goals;
A committee of Native American parents and school officials will review all disciplinary incidents every quarter for racial disparities and, if disparities are found and cannot be explained, recommend policy changes to reduce such disparities;
The Interwest Equity Assistance Center, funded by the U.S. Department of Education, will provide training for Winner students on conflict resolution and training for teachers on unconscious racial bias and educational equity.
To read more about decision visit these websites:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/indigenous_peoples_literature/message/23280
http://www.aclu.org/racialjustice/edu/33136prs20071211.html
Consent decree in SD includes diversity education: [groups.yahoo.com]Details about SD racism consent decree terms: [www.aclu.org]
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RE: The bluntness of the conversations and life Posted on Dec 18 2007 at 6:26pm by Life is hard in the UP. The long winters make people hard as the frozen landscape. But I find a gunuine warmth to the people despite the temperature. As for the racism,I beleive it is no more prevelant in Watersmeet than elsewhere. It is perhaps magnified by the editor. Another story line could have been just easily edited in. RE: The bluntness of the conversations and life Posted on Dec 19 2007 at 1:20pm by You say racism is no worse in Watersmeet - and while that may be true - it's a indictment of all areas.
I love the U.P. and think the racism is mainly due to lack of knowledge or blindly repeating what they hear family and friends say.
But that doesn't make it right.
I am glad that the editor chose this story line because too many other editors - apparently agree with your feelings - they would rather ignore or not hear about the situation.
I don't believe the Watersmeet basketball coach is a true "racist" but his delay honoring the Native American player had the same effect - especially when it wasn't corrected until his own son was about to reach the same milestone the Native American player did the previous year.
Plus the ceremony to honor the Native America student was held at the end of the game as people were leaving instead of halftime like his son.
Racism is an issue that U.P. residents need to admit and deal with - even if painful or they'd rather hear different information.
I also feel that Native Americans need to come to terms with their own racist feelings - just like whites.
None of us are perfect - and we are all shaped by our environment, upbringing and what's in our heart.
We humans - as a society - need to start treating each other with more respect.
This documentary will help the U.P. come to terms with this issue of racism against Native Americans - and hopefully our hearts will soon become as pure as our lakes and streams.
Although the state's recent OK of Sulfide "acid" Mining is about to ruin our environment.
But that's another controversial issue for another day.
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RE: The bluntness of the conversations and life Posted on Dec 19 2007 at 9:07pm by Quote:
As for the racism,I beleive it is no more prevelant in Watersmeet than elsewhere. It is perhaps magnified by the editor. Another story line could have been just easily edited in.
I think the film maker absolutely manipulated the event of Brians 1000th point getting overlooked by the local newspaper. He went so far as to go to my reservation (Forest County Potawatomi Community which isn't even on the UP... it's in Wisconsin) to get the scenes of Wanda Pete asking Billy Daniels to honor her grandson at a pow-wow because he was overlooked by the white press. She says to Billy that Brian asked her why he didn't get any picture in the paper, but when Brian's on camera he says he's not gonna stress about it. So, which was it?
This is not to say that racism isn't absolutely a problem in the UP (and the rest of Michigan and Wisconsin, and so forth). It's been in the language and very culture of the whites there since they shoved Indian people onto reservations and occupied our lands. But, this film isn't about that... it's about life in a small town obsessed by basketball. Haven't you noticed that the only Indians featured in the film have something to do with roundball?
Mary at STONELAKE PHOTOGRAPHY [www.stonelakephotography.com]Racism against Native Americans in the U.P. Posted on Dec 19 2007 at 9:34pm by Dear Mary,
The reason this racism case was covered is because the whole purpose of the documentary is to cover the "Nimrods" basketball team - because the team’s name has a double meaning and it’s located in an area that much of the country has never heard of - sort of like a Michigan version of “Northern Exposure.”
By sticking to the main reason - the directors have lived up to their plans - yet had the guts to point out what happened without overreacting.
I commend Brian for not stressing - but he likely did not want to get any of his teammates angry by speaking his mind - or he won't let the snub get him down.
Brian is in a no win situation - if he had made a big deal about it - he would have been criticized and by not commenting.
Mary - you make it sound like his grandmother did the wrong thing.
Brian is a teen - it's up to adults, caregivers like his grandmothers - and those of us who live in the U.P. to point out what others many not realize about the U.P.
Mary - you correctly state racism is a problem in the U.P. but I think you read too much into Brian's decision to take the high road - or maybe he was just going with the flow like most teens.
Brian's reaction is his own - and his grandmother and the documentary producers did what they think is correct - and I agree with what they both did.
I commend his grandmother for making an issue of this because no one else was going to.
I commend the documentary producers for pointing out what happened - because especially in sports-related events - usually only the good news gets reported.
The documentary did not cover up the issue - gave both sides - and went on with the business. Have you watched the other episodes? It’s a great show.
To its credit, the Ironwood Daily Globe even ran the grandmother's letter to the editor that sparked debate about the incident.
As a longtime U.P. and Georgia news reporter, I have witnessed that many sports controversies are quickly swept under the rug - that's why it took so long for the steroids and other scandals in sports to be revealed.
I personally know about some U.P. sports controversies that were never reported - or it took a long time - for the story to be covered in the local media.
RE: The bluntness of the conversations and life Posted on Jan 17 2008 at 4:55am by I was raised in rural Idaho most of my life. Now I've been in Orange County for about 7 years. In watching the show, I was immediately brought back to Idaho. Shooting guns for the hell of it and harvesting livestock was a way of life. I really commend the producer for, as someone else posted, not "white-washing" the show. When my friend (born and raised in Orange County) was watching it, I frequently said "Oh, I remember doing that in Idaho!" I would smile proudly as my friend glared at me with disgust. I really dug the scene where they're skinning an animal, and you see the kids come by, and it really is a family event. I remember this same thing when I would go fishing. We would bring the fish home, and the girls would gut them. There's something to be said about having "roles" like that in a family. I'm not against any women's rights, but I do think it's important to have clear-set responsibilities in a family like those illustrated in Nimrod Nation.
I know it may be a bit off topic, but I have to say this show is completely incredible. When I saw the "discuss" button, I was expecting oh, I don't know.. maybe 6000 posts. The discussion board is a sparse as the UP! I haven't found of if they're doing a 2nd season, but I sure hope they do. This is the FIRST series I have ever been able to watch. I have an interest in people, not people pretending to be something else.
I also really enjoyed, in classic independant film nature, how they lost the last game. I felt bad for them, but it really showed the depth of the people (Coach crying for example).
Lastly, I was thinking how they decided Watermeet. I figured they must of wanted to follow a team who would likely win, a really crappy team wouldn't of had any material past episode 2. I wonder who they asked to see who would win. I also wonder if the other cities were upset because they didn't have a show about them. Also, the other teamates on the team had almost no airtime, wonder if there was a reason for that. Also, the flip-off still was a bit too dramatic.. (here I go, knit picking)
Love, love, love the show, and I want to do what I can to help it keep going. We got a pledge or something?!
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RE: The bluntness of the conversations and life Posted on Apr 9 2008 at 2:53pm by Quoted: "I grew up in the UP. I remember our dog having puppies..8 of them. We gave away as many as we could, but there were 4 left. My dad told me to put them in a box. He grabbed his rifle and we went to the local dump. Each was shot. We buried them. It seems crude and almost inhumane, if you will, but that was the way it was done, much like the shooting of the pig. It wasn't done maliciously. It was understood that we couldn't take care of them properly, and no one else wanted them or need them."
UM, that wasn't ALMOST inhumane, it WAS inhumane. I don't care how you dish it up or where you are from, such callous cruelty is unconscionable. Why didn't it occur to anyone in your ignorant family to get the poor dog spayed so she didn't have puppies in the first place?RE: The bluntness of the conversations and life Posted on Apr 9 2008 at 5:54pm by well, maybe way back 50 years ago that's how it was done. Look at WW1 when the British were trying to leave France ..they shot their horses so there would be room on the boats.
Actually, I doubt if anybody had their dogs spayed back then..or at least very rare.
In this particluar case, you don't even know the entire story...our dog was actually kept in the garage while she was in heat and a male dog jumped through the window, breaking the glass, and got her. At that time, there were packs of dogs running around loose. Also, most people kept their dogs outside...tied to a chain, or in a pen. They rarely were in the house. It wasn't like today where they are considered as human as humans and everyone gets all attached to them and stuff.
Dogs were maybe pets, but also used for work. So I understand how you feel all uppity about being inhumane and all that, and all rightious with your concern and statement about my family being ignorant, but it was the way life was back then...at least up in the woods. That was the way it was done. Dogs weren't brought to the vet that much, and most of the time if they were sick at all, they were put down. What can I tell ya.
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RE: The bluntness of the conversations and life Posted on Jun 3 2008 at 2:15pm by Rather then concern yourselves about a pig being shot, you should all focus on episode 4 where all the children are at a bon fire consuming alcohol. I've written to the ATF, Governor, Watersmeet township and the prosecuting attorney for Geogobic county regarding Mr.Petersons possible involvement with the situation. It would appear he condones the behavior after sending him several emails and has decided to stop responding to my allegations. Alcoholism seems to be a huge problem in that town from all the statistical information I've been gathering and new alcohol and drug abuse centers are sprouting up every few months in and around the county. What also is difficult to comprehend is how Mr. Morgen and his staff allowed those children to gather and consume the alcohol and didn't intervene, they too should be held criminally repsonsible for their actions as will be Mr. peterson. RE: The bluntness of the conversations and life Posted on Jun 3 2008 at 6:25pm by I was wondering about that as well. I will say, when we were growing up, it was pretty much the same. We used to have parties at houses that you would be surprised. It was easy to get booze. Most of us were drunk on any given weekend, and a lot more during the week.
Not to say that is a good thing, becasue it isn't, but it went on, and it appears it still does.
RE: The bluntness of the conversations and life Posted on Sep 13 2008 at 2:09am by You are seriously naive if you don't believe type of activity (drinking / etc.) isn't done in every small and large town every weekend of the year; it's a fact of life. I think the fact that Mr. Peterson deals with "reality" rather than the falsehoods of abstinence, demonstrates that he's "street wise." Furthermore, his frank discussions with his team demostrate that he knows what's going on, and the perils the students face on and off the court. In reality, only those who live in Watersmeet really know how the school administrators and parents handle the realities of teenage behavior. Hence, we can only speculate and extrapolate from the short segments presented in the documentary.
Lastly, I doubt very seriously that Mr. Peterson would have condoned such behavior. Sometimes, in order for kids to learn life's most difficult lessons, they must live through them by themselves. I think you saw this in his approach to dealing with Nathan Vestich. Tough, athletic, but sometimes a hot headed kid that would succumb to other teams' rough play. The coach knew Nathan would be the target, and warned him not to react. You also saw how the coach feared the worst for Nathan after the game, recognizing that some kids believe that such an event is the "end of the world." George Peterson is a guy in touch with reality. You many not liked some of the actions and / or comments, but net net, he appears to be a solid guy.
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